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[Music]

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welcome to the skeptic zone

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the podcast from australia for science

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and reason

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yes it's the skeptic zone podcast

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episode number

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567 for the 1st of september 2019

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richard saunders coming to you this week

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from the beautiful city of atlanta

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georgia where i'm immersed

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entrenched surrounded by dragon con

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the over the top science fiction fantasy

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everything convention here in downtown

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atlanta with

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thousands of people dressed in thousands

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of costumes all going at the same place

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at the same time twice this

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really is a mad weekend but what a lot

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of fun

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coming up on this week's show a few

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highlights from the first few days

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i speak to dr angie matkey who is the

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assistant director here at the

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skeptrac one of the uh the many tracks

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or many

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different sections of dragon con she's

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going to give us a little taste of what

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is to come and then i take a walking

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tour

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again

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since i haven't been uh to dragon con

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for almost

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a decade so join me as i walk around

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with the walking tour then i catch up

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with an old friend

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jennifer hathon who i met here many

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years ago and she now works for the

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american association

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for the advancement of science

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find out all about that a bit later on

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in the show

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after that another adventure i walk over

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to the giant areas dedicated to vendors

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people selling merch merchandise

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t-shirts suits of armor

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everything you can possibly imagine

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join me as i walk around the vendor

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rooms and to wrap up the show we dive

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once again back into the pages of the

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skeptic the journal from australian

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skeptics

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and read about what loretta marin the

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jelly bean lady

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had to say not so many years ago about

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woo quackery being sold

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in pharmacies and pharmacies that have a

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resident

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naturopath but now it's time for me to

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go around the corner down the stairs

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up the elevator through the sky bridge

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to another hotel down the steps onto the

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street

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back up again come back the other way

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because of the crush of the crowds try

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to find something to eat

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well i'm doing all that i hope you enjoy

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beautiful atlanta georgia i'm in reed

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street which is well a little bit south

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south east of the main downtown area

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i've checked into a very charming

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airbnb and i'm just waiting for an uber

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to get downtown

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to meet my old friend dr angie matkey

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who is

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one of the organizers of the skype track

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this year i'm

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very happy to be back in atlanta after a

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gap of nine years

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long time skeptic zone listeners will

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maybe remember

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my reports from dragon con skepticism

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and

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were it was like 50 t-rexes in the lobby

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i think i saw the pictures yeah really

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it was amazing

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i've made it i've made it i've made it i

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went to hilton hotel

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and who ran up to to greet me

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enthusiastically dr

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angie mackey hi richard i didn't just

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run up to greet you i texted you and

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said come meet me

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you did you did you were expecting me

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well here we are i'm back at the hilton

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after all these years it's quite a

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nostalgia trip there are the famous

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elevators right of course

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goes right up to the center and uh i'm

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just so pleased that

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you're here to greet me this is um the

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first night

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well it's wednesdays it really starts

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tomorrow yes that's right

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um uh well tomorrow is really the load

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in that's when things

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are officially beginning to start but

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every year it gets bigger and bigger

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and starts starting earlier and earlier

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the

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um first day

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of schedule thing starts like thursday

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night

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but it is worth it to come in early to

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enjoy all the parties and all the

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friends

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it's it's a little low key to start with

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people you have time to get settled in

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people get get to meet each other and

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things like that it's

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totally worth it to come in early yeah

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and it's it's big i mean derek was

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warning me that it's much bigger than it

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was ten years ago

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totally true so tomorrow i'm gonna have

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a great time just getting my feedback

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you know with my sea legs my dragon con

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senses and then friday we kick off with

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the skip track

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that's right i can't wait to see you

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there yeah i'm doing a skeptic zone live

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and i'm on some panels so

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what a blast so oh you have you got any

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anything left in your glass there angie

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i think i'm gonna

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i think you've got just enough for a

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quick cheers cheers

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cheers cheers to you richard thank you

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so much

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for coming back i've been wanting to

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have you back at dragon con for all

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these years i'm so happy you're here

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[Music]

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and what a pleasure it was to catch up

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with dr angie madkie

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after that i had a little look around

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some people were gathering there were

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some crazy costumes already beginning to

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show up

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but i made my way back had a good

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night's sleep and the next day i was

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ready for some more

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i decided to join a newbie

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walking tour designed for

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brand new people to dragon con but i

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thought after 10 years it was a good

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well the craziness has started and this

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year folks i'm doing something which i

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have never done before i'm actually

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taking a walking tour

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of a dragon con to uh get a better feel

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for it now this wasn't available all the

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years ago that i was here and i'm very

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glad that they're doing this now

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and i'm with uh some random guy who

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bumped into me near the elevator hello

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who's this

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uh adam buffaleno and you are a skeptic

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zone listener

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i have been for almost 10 years now i

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think

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well the show's been going for just over

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10 years so you're doing pretty well

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but you're joining us here on the

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walking tour and so

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you and i will both get a good

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understanding of the scope of dragon con

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and here we are we're passing people

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dressed in all sorts of

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craziness already no no it's uh

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it's going to be massive you've got that

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right now we're entering the food court

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this is the first port of call on our

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tour probably a good idea i think

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already there are hundreds and hundreds

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of people here it's it's incredible

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but uh the parade of costumes that we

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will see over the next few days will be

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just

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minds right mind snapping i think

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come down here also for free music

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and also a lot of times there will be um

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interesting groups are here so fan run

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groups

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so if you're interested in something

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somebody might have a fan group for

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the hobbit or something like that uh i

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like the venture brothers and the

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venture brothers fan group

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and i hope they'll be there this year

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yeah so

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fan run groups are here free music and

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art show here

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all righty this is the embassy level

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and here we have sci-fi lit fantasy lit

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and writer's track room so if you're

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into any of those

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tracks science fiction literature which

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is going to be of course huge uh fantasy

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literature again pretty huge

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and writer's track room so uh you'll be

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having some

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well the tour is going on it's just been

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a labyrinth of

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sky bridges hotels rooms

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escalators sky bridges rooms another

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hotel and food courts

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and food courts and uh it's around

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another corner here there are people

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asking for blood

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it's a big blood drive here which is

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good to see where are we back in the

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marriott i think we are indeed yes

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it is confusing at first but somehow

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somehow i think it's starting to all

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come together like some

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bizarre multi-dimensional jigsaw puzzle

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as i said you look at the roof you look

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at the roof they're all different that's

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more winding around and over and under

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and through things and we're back at the

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hilton where the skeptrac is

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we are here at the hilton in

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hilton you have costuming costuming

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exhibition

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emf podcasting science

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skeptics space silk road

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grit anime and manga

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star trek animation and digital media

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so a lot of stuff going on here so some

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of these rooms back here

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great we've got a young lady here

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dressed as

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um i i'm not trusting anything in

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particular

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i've just taken my inspiration from the

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dark crystal

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you joined us on the walking tour and

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this is your first dragon con

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yes it is what are your impressions so

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far

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um a lot a lot going on

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um just more like surrounded by nerds

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it's awesome this is true this is very

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true and what do you hope to

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see here over the next few days um a lot

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of events

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yeah have you come for anything in

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a no bit of this a little bit of that um

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but uh but yeah i'm uh

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i'm really excited to like just

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experience

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it all i hope you have a wonderful time

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[Music]

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skepticon 2019 the australian skeptics

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national convention

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will be in melbourne from the 6th to the

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8th of december

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[Music]

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we have an impressive speaker lineup

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including the skeptic's

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guide to the universe dr steve novella j

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novella cara santa maria bob novella

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and evan bernstein also susan gerbic

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from guerrilla skepticism

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on wikipedia and many other

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international and local guests

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including joe thornley the host of

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zealot a podcast about cults

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and an author of a book by the same name

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[Music]

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skepticon includes a trivia night on

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thursday the 5th of december

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to test your skeptical knowledge

284
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for more information about the event the

285
00:11:54,829 --> 00:11:50,629
skepticon.org.au

286
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notes

287
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[Music]

288
00:12:18,710 --> 00:12:11,550
do

289
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everybody has a podcast these days it

290
00:12:24,629 --> 00:12:21,839
seems to me

291
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one of the the utter joys of coming back

292
00:12:27,990 --> 00:12:26,240
to dragon con after all these years are

293
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seeing some old friends

294
00:12:33,670 --> 00:12:31,519
and this bubble of joy

295
00:12:35,590 --> 00:12:33,680
and loveliness came up to me hug me i

296
00:12:37,670 --> 00:12:35,600
said just about to call the police but

297
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then i realized

298
00:12:41,190 --> 00:12:39,760
it was jennifer who i met first here at

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dragon con almost

300
00:12:45,190 --> 00:12:43,760
well a decade over a decade ago yeah and

301
00:12:47,750 --> 00:12:45,200
you saying that you've been

302
00:12:49,990 --> 00:12:47,760
here this is your 18th dragon con my

303
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18th dragon con and i love it it's i

304
00:12:54,069 --> 00:12:51,680
come every year i've been and i will

305
00:12:56,870 --> 00:12:54,079
come every year until

306
00:12:57,910 --> 00:12:56,880
until until the tsunami or the

307
00:12:59,910 --> 00:12:57,920
earthquake which you were just

308
00:13:02,550 --> 00:12:59,920
discussing a moment ago

309
00:13:03,750 --> 00:13:02,560
and you're always helping or taking part

310
00:13:04,310 --> 00:13:03,760
or doing something around the skeptic

311
00:13:06,550 --> 00:13:04,320
track

312
00:13:08,150 --> 00:13:06,560
yes i am usually um in attendance at the

313
00:13:11,269 --> 00:13:08,160
skeptic track every with

314
00:13:13,750 --> 00:13:11,279
as many panels as i can get to i um

315
00:13:15,430 --> 00:13:13,760
i usually go and uh and start parties

316
00:13:16,150 --> 00:13:15,440
with uh with all the skeptics that are

317
00:13:17,990 --> 00:13:16,160
around

318
00:13:19,269 --> 00:13:18,000
and and we have a great time because we

319
00:13:21,110 --> 00:13:19,279
don't see each other all year

320
00:13:22,310 --> 00:13:21,120
i live on the east coast and so i don't

321
00:13:23,430 --> 00:13:22,320
so i don't get to see every

322
00:13:25,670 --> 00:13:23,440
everybody because they're all spread

323
00:13:27,190 --> 00:13:25,680
around the country so um so i take this

324
00:13:29,430 --> 00:13:27,200
opportunity to have a great time

325
00:13:30,550 --> 00:13:29,440
and party with everybody and just and

326
00:13:33,829 --> 00:13:30,560
exchange ideas

327
00:13:35,829 --> 00:13:33,839
and and just catch up and be in and

328
00:13:37,430 --> 00:13:35,839
and and see my and see my wonderful

329
00:13:40,069 --> 00:13:37,440
friends again so that's uh

330
00:13:41,430 --> 00:13:40,079
so that's why why i come every year and

331
00:13:43,990 --> 00:13:41,440
i'm going to come every year for

332
00:13:45,430 --> 00:13:44,000
for the rest of time until you can uh

333
00:13:47,269 --> 00:13:45,440
and you're just

334
00:13:48,710 --> 00:13:47,279
saying that you you have a scientific

335
00:13:49,990 --> 00:13:48,720
background basically i do have

336
00:13:52,550 --> 00:13:50,000
scientific background but

337
00:13:53,910 --> 00:13:52,560
i'm not in science anymore i uh i left

338
00:13:56,470 --> 00:13:53,920
science for business

339
00:13:57,670 --> 00:13:56,480
and uh and now i work for the american

340
00:13:58,870 --> 00:13:57,680
association for the advancement of

341
00:14:00,870 --> 00:13:58,880
science as a

342
00:14:02,629 --> 00:14:00,880
administrative support specialist and

343
00:14:04,710 --> 00:14:02,639
for the center for public engagement

344
00:14:07,509 --> 00:14:04,720
with science and technology

345
00:14:08,949 --> 00:14:07,519
and uh so what we do is we uh we go

346
00:14:12,150 --> 00:14:08,959
around the country and we teach

347
00:14:14,629 --> 00:14:12,160
uh pis uh principal investigators

348
00:14:16,949 --> 00:14:14,639
how to communicate their research to lay

349
00:14:19,189 --> 00:14:16,959
audiences into government audiences

350
00:14:20,710 --> 00:14:19,199
and uh so and not everybody everybody

351
00:14:22,470 --> 00:14:20,720
not everybody has

352
00:14:24,470 --> 00:14:22,480
signed communication in their background

353
00:14:25,509 --> 00:14:24,480
or they they're not necessarily good at

354
00:14:26,790 --> 00:14:25,519
speaking i mean they may know their

355
00:14:28,150 --> 00:14:26,800
subject matter very well

356
00:14:30,470 --> 00:14:28,160
they don't know how to communicate that

357
00:14:31,670 --> 00:14:30,480
idea to just your average person

358
00:14:32,949 --> 00:14:31,680
and that's the idea they want to get

359
00:14:33,910 --> 00:14:32,959
people involved in the scientific

360
00:14:35,590 --> 00:14:33,920
process

361
00:14:37,509 --> 00:14:35,600
and they and they want to and they want

362
00:14:39,509 --> 00:14:37,519
to get people's attention

363
00:14:41,590 --> 00:14:39,519
and so they and so here at the center

364
00:14:42,310 --> 00:14:41,600
they they uh they show people how to do

365
00:14:44,150 --> 00:14:42,320
that

366
00:14:46,550 --> 00:14:44,160
and how to and how to broaden their

367
00:14:47,350 --> 00:14:46,560
audiences and so we send people all over

368
00:14:48,629 --> 00:14:47,360
the country and we

369
00:14:51,030 --> 00:14:48,639
we've actually had people outside of the

370
00:14:53,590 --> 00:14:51,040
country come in and um

371
00:14:55,430 --> 00:14:53,600
and uh we give presentations and

372
00:14:56,550 --> 00:14:55,440
workshops and we and we have people work

373
00:14:58,870 --> 00:14:56,560
together in groups since

374
00:15:00,949 --> 00:14:58,880
and individually to uh help develop

375
00:15:03,110 --> 00:15:00,959
their their plan for engagement for

376
00:15:04,949 --> 00:15:03,120
in the in the public so it's really so

377
00:15:06,470 --> 00:15:04,959
it's pretty great this reminds me of

378
00:15:09,509 --> 00:15:06,480
some of the work that uh

379
00:15:12,230 --> 00:15:09,519
alan alder is doing yes but he is a

380
00:15:13,590 --> 00:15:12,240
triple a fellow so yeah we have plenty

381
00:15:16,550 --> 00:15:13,600
of awards that uh

382
00:15:17,910 --> 00:15:16,560
that uh honor and uh al and alden people

383
00:15:18,870 --> 00:15:17,920
like him who do the kind of work of

384
00:15:22,230 --> 00:15:18,880
science engagement

385
00:15:24,310 --> 00:15:22,240
it is a it is a grand um

386
00:15:25,509 --> 00:15:24,320
adventure to be able to be able to get

387
00:15:26,550 --> 00:15:25,519
to know so many different kinds of

388
00:15:27,430 --> 00:15:26,560
people with different kinds of

389
00:15:29,189 --> 00:15:27,440
backgrounds

390
00:15:30,790 --> 00:15:29,199
they're coming in and they want to and

391
00:15:33,269 --> 00:15:30,800
they want to know like how do i

392
00:15:34,230 --> 00:15:33,279
say communicate my message of research

393
00:15:36,310 --> 00:15:34,240
and science

394
00:15:37,509 --> 00:15:36,320
to an audience that of people who are

395
00:15:39,269 --> 00:15:37,519
maybe don't have any

396
00:15:40,870 --> 00:15:39,279
background of what i what i do or maybe

397
00:15:42,949 --> 00:15:40,880
have never even heard what i do

398
00:15:44,790 --> 00:15:42,959
or maybe have some interest but not but

399
00:15:45,910 --> 00:15:44,800
not enough background to actually know

400
00:15:49,430 --> 00:15:45,920
the something matter that

401
00:15:51,590 --> 00:15:49,440
that pi would talk about so we help them

402
00:15:52,710 --> 00:15:51,600
bridge those gaps and connect those

403
00:15:57,670 --> 00:15:52,720
people

404
00:15:59,509 --> 00:15:57,680
find out more about the this

405
00:16:00,470 --> 00:15:59,519
organization well you can go to triple e

406
00:16:02,069 --> 00:16:00,480
s.org

407
00:16:04,629 --> 00:16:02,079
this for in the center for public

408
00:16:06,710 --> 00:16:04,639
engagement with science and technology

409
00:16:08,790 --> 00:16:06,720
that on aaas.org will take you to

410
00:16:11,829 --> 00:16:08,800
anywhere that any of our

411
00:16:13,990 --> 00:16:11,839
our awards and programs and all of the

412
00:16:15,910 --> 00:16:14,000
member services that we have

413
00:16:17,269 --> 00:16:15,920
and and and you can learn everything you

414
00:16:17,670 --> 00:16:17,279
want to know about triple a s and what

415
00:16:20,629 --> 00:16:17,680
we do

416
00:16:21,990 --> 00:16:20,639
in our message of science for for all of

417
00:16:25,030 --> 00:16:22,000
the world not just americans

418
00:16:27,350 --> 00:16:25,040
[Laughter]

419
00:16:28,710 --> 00:16:27,360
aaas.org but you can always find a link

420
00:16:32,310 --> 00:16:28,720
in this week's show notes

421
00:16:35,670 --> 00:16:34,069
thank you jennifer very much oh thank

422
00:16:37,350 --> 00:16:35,680
you so much i appreciate you

423
00:16:51,030 --> 00:16:37,360
and i'm and i've missed you it's been

424
00:16:53,590 --> 00:16:51,040
great to see you

425
00:16:54,550 --> 00:16:53,600
hi this is dr pamela gay from astronomy

426
00:16:56,629 --> 00:16:54,560
cast

427
00:16:58,470 --> 00:16:56,639
each week fraser kane and i take our

428
00:16:59,910 --> 00:16:58,480
listeners on a fact-based journey

429
00:17:02,389 --> 00:16:59,920
through the cosmos

430
00:17:03,590 --> 00:17:02,399
with our weekly podcast we explain not

431
00:17:06,150 --> 00:17:03,600
just what we know

432
00:17:08,069 --> 00:17:06,160
but how we know what we know about this

433
00:17:10,710 --> 00:17:08,079
universe that we share

434
00:17:11,350 --> 00:17:10,720
check us out at astronomycast.com and

435
00:17:13,829 --> 00:17:11,360
look for us

436
00:17:15,510 --> 00:17:13,839
in itunes google play and wherever you

437
00:17:22,700 --> 00:17:15,520
download podcasts

438
00:17:43,669 --> 00:17:39,300
[Music]

439
00:17:51,110 --> 00:17:47,430
i'm in what they call the vendors

440
00:17:53,270 --> 00:17:51,120
or traders area of dragon con

441
00:17:55,190 --> 00:17:53,280
and from what i can gather this is multi

442
00:17:58,230 --> 00:17:55,200
levels

443
00:18:02,150 --> 00:17:58,240
of big rooms

444
00:18:05,350 --> 00:18:02,160
covered with vendor tables t-shirts

445
00:18:06,630 --> 00:18:05,360
um money bags what's

446
00:18:09,669 --> 00:18:06,640
i'm just trying to describe everything

447
00:18:13,190 --> 00:18:09,679
i'm seeing we've got

448
00:18:17,350 --> 00:18:13,200
lots of outfits lots of outfits uh

449
00:18:20,549 --> 00:18:17,360
jewelry norse foundry i'm just passing

450
00:18:23,190 --> 00:18:20,559
uh fantasy toys

451
00:18:24,390 --> 00:18:23,200
thousands of people in here literally

452
00:18:28,390 --> 00:18:24,400
thousands of people

453
00:18:30,150 --> 00:18:28,400
many in elaborate costumes

454
00:18:31,430 --> 00:18:30,160
lots of artists displaying their work

455
00:18:32,789 --> 00:18:31,440
which is nice to see

456
00:18:35,430 --> 00:18:32,799
and i think i've come to one of the

457
00:18:37,750 --> 00:18:35,440
tables i was keen to get to

458
00:18:45,750 --> 00:18:37,760
and that's one selling dice so i better

459
00:18:50,390 --> 00:18:47,669
the other popular corsets i've never

460
00:18:54,230 --> 00:18:50,400
seen so many corsets in my life because

461
00:18:55,669 --> 00:18:54,240
i have and the passing parade is

462
00:18:57,669 --> 00:18:55,679
something to see these are just people

463
00:19:00,070 --> 00:18:57,679
also here looking at things

464
00:19:02,310 --> 00:19:00,080
we have everything from rookies to storm

465
00:19:06,549 --> 00:19:02,320
troopers to pirates

466
00:19:09,990 --> 00:19:06,559
superheroes um characters from

467
00:19:11,909 --> 00:19:10,000
many things i don't even recognize

468
00:19:14,390 --> 00:19:11,919
well that's fine it's all part of the

469
00:19:22,230 --> 00:19:16,710
ghost superhero star trek there goes

470
00:19:27,190 --> 00:19:24,549
row after row after row after row table

471
00:19:29,669 --> 00:19:27,200
after table off the table

472
00:19:30,630 --> 00:19:29,679
it's simple harry potter oh i can buy a

473
00:19:33,669 --> 00:19:30,640
magic wand

474
00:19:34,230 --> 00:19:33,679
it's simply too much to take in doing it

475
00:19:35,669 --> 00:19:34,240
once

476
00:19:39,669 --> 00:19:35,679
i think i'll have to come back here

477
00:19:41,990 --> 00:19:39,679
quite a few times over the next few days

478
00:19:44,630 --> 00:19:42,000
today being friday the first day it's

479
00:19:45,909 --> 00:19:44,640
open it's particularly crowded

480
00:19:50,830 --> 00:19:45,919
trying to get through the people here

481
00:19:54,950 --> 00:19:53,190
kilts that's interesting you do see a

482
00:19:57,750 --> 00:19:54,960
lot of kilts here at dragon con

483
00:20:04,830 --> 00:19:57,760
i'm not exactly sure why but you do see

484
00:20:13,350 --> 00:20:08,710
gridlock i'm in a human gridlock here

485
00:20:13,360 --> 00:20:19,110
thank you

486
00:20:23,669 --> 00:20:21,430
and another dice table oh this is a good

487
00:20:26,789 --> 00:20:23,679
place

488
00:20:29,590 --> 00:20:26,799
well a brief stop by the dice store and

489
00:20:31,909 --> 00:20:29,600
i've got a bag full of d10 dice

490
00:20:34,470 --> 00:20:31,919
which is great because uh they're used

491
00:20:35,830 --> 00:20:34,480
in the mr investigator show where we do

492
00:20:39,590 --> 00:20:35,840
a random number

493
00:20:44,310 --> 00:20:39,600
to six but we give away d10 dice because

494
00:20:51,510 --> 00:20:48,470
yet more amazing costumes for sale

495
00:20:55,590 --> 00:20:51,520
there's spiderman over there

496
00:21:02,710 --> 00:20:59,190
comics and toys what's that

497
00:21:05,990 --> 00:21:02,720
we have armor

498
00:21:10,390 --> 00:21:06,000
swords and things like that lots of

499
00:21:14,870 --> 00:21:12,789
we have a doctor who themed stained

500
00:21:16,950 --> 00:21:14,880
glass window with a tardis

501
00:21:21,029 --> 00:21:16,960
oh and one with the enterprise very

502
00:21:28,830 --> 00:21:25,350
so much to see so much to see

503
00:21:31,270 --> 00:21:28,840
and it just goes samurai swords good

504
00:21:32,950 --> 00:21:31,280
grief i'd like to see me getting those

505
00:21:35,990 --> 00:21:32,960
through customs

506
00:21:40,870 --> 00:21:36,000
i'm just passing a valkyrie here

507
00:21:44,070 --> 00:21:43,510
we have uh famous movie posters on sale

508
00:21:46,950 --> 00:21:44,080
here

509
00:21:48,230 --> 00:21:46,960
rocky horror 2001 the original star wars

510
00:21:51,350 --> 00:21:48,240
800

511
00:21:52,950 --> 00:21:51,360
for the original star wars poster well

512
00:21:55,909 --> 00:21:52,960
i'm going to keep wandering around

513
00:21:56,950 --> 00:21:55,919
seeing what else i can find here but it

514
00:21:58,710 --> 00:21:56,960
certainly is for me

515
00:22:01,029 --> 00:21:58,720
anyway i think one of the highlights of

516
00:22:03,669 --> 00:22:01,039
these conventions is just the fun

517
00:22:04,870 --> 00:22:03,679
and the craziness i keep using that word

518
00:22:15,830 --> 00:22:04,880
a lot

519
00:22:19,669 --> 00:22:17,669
now walking back to the hotel along the

520
00:22:21,029 --> 00:22:19,679
crowded crowded streets

521
00:22:23,190 --> 00:22:21,039
and it's interesting to see how many

522
00:22:26,310 --> 00:22:23,200
people are willing to line up in the hot

523
00:22:26,870 --> 00:22:26,320
sun to see something or other an evander

524
00:22:28,950 --> 00:22:26,880
star

525
00:22:31,510 --> 00:22:28,960
or a panel or whatever i'm passing

526
00:22:36,149 --> 00:22:34,470
looking hot and tired and the queue

527
00:22:38,830 --> 00:22:36,159
stretches around the corner i wonder

528
00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:41,909
for

529
00:22:47,510 --> 00:22:45,029
somehow i'm working my way back to the

530
00:22:48,070 --> 00:22:47,520
uh hilton where the skeptic guild track

531
00:22:52,310 --> 00:22:48,080
is

532
00:22:54,070 --> 00:22:52,320
the skype track and i'm in the hyatt

533
00:22:56,070 --> 00:22:54,080
making my way through crowds and crowds

534
00:22:57,830 --> 00:22:56,080
and crowds and i'm delighted to see

535
00:22:59,430 --> 00:22:57,840
there's a whole group of people here and

536
00:23:01,750 --> 00:22:59,440
i thought there would be

537
00:23:03,430 --> 00:23:01,760
dressed us the crew of the starship

538
00:23:08,410 --> 00:23:03,440
orville

539
00:24:16,830 --> 00:23:08,420
one for maynard

540
00:24:29,830 --> 00:24:18,540
so

541
00:24:34,070 --> 00:24:32,310
now let's dive once again into the back

542
00:24:35,990 --> 00:24:34,080
issues of the skeptic the journal from

543
00:24:38,470 --> 00:24:36,000
australian skeptics

544
00:24:40,230 --> 00:24:38,480
this week we're going back all the way

545
00:24:45,110 --> 00:24:40,240
to 2014

546
00:24:47,430 --> 00:24:45,120
volume 34 number three and on page 22

547
00:24:49,830 --> 00:24:47,440
a report by a dear friend of mine

548
00:24:53,669 --> 00:24:49,840
loretta marin also known as the

549
00:25:00,310 --> 00:24:53,679
jelly bean lady harmony

550
00:25:02,870 --> 00:25:00,320
pharmacy fantasy

551
00:25:05,269 --> 00:25:02,880
marin looks at a disturbing attempt by

552
00:25:06,360 --> 00:25:05,279
pharmacists to woo customers

553
00:25:09,990 --> 00:25:06,370
with woo

554
00:25:15,029 --> 00:25:13,190
tired and feeling unwell want to improve

555
00:25:18,149 --> 00:25:15,039
your vitality

556
00:25:19,590 --> 00:25:18,159
why not see the in-house naturopath in

557
00:25:22,149 --> 00:25:19,600
your pharmacy

558
00:25:25,430 --> 00:25:22,159
surely they can help after all they

559
00:25:28,630 --> 00:25:25,440
offer a wide range of goods and services

560
00:25:31,430 --> 00:25:28,640
but do they actually work

561
00:25:33,190 --> 00:25:31,440
are they value for money tucked in the

562
00:25:36,230 --> 00:25:33,200
corner of my local pharmacy

563
00:25:39,510 --> 00:25:36,240
is a high-tech naturopathy clinic

564
00:25:41,269 --> 00:25:39,520
complete with a flashy chrome and glass

565
00:25:44,870 --> 00:25:41,279
door etched with a long

566
00:25:47,269 --> 00:25:44,880
list of available alternative services

567
00:25:50,070 --> 00:25:47,279
according to the pharmacy staff wearing

568
00:25:54,830 --> 00:25:50,080
badges referring customers to the clinic

569
00:25:57,909 --> 00:25:54,840
they go there for natural treatment

570
00:26:01,990 --> 00:25:57,919
alternatives alternatives to what

571
00:26:05,750 --> 00:26:02,000
to treatments which actually work

572
00:26:07,750 --> 00:26:05,760
perhaps at only ninety dollars for a

573
00:26:09,909 --> 00:26:07,760
one-hour consultation

574
00:26:11,269 --> 00:26:09,919
attracting a private health insurance

575
00:26:14,310 --> 00:26:11,279
rebate from most

576
00:26:16,950 --> 00:26:14,320
funds so there must be something to it

577
00:26:19,909 --> 00:26:16,960
these naturopaths claiming expertise in

578
00:26:22,630 --> 00:26:19,919
complementary medicines and wellness

579
00:26:23,750 --> 00:26:22,640
use approaches tailored to individual

580
00:26:27,190 --> 00:26:23,760
needs

581
00:26:29,669 --> 00:26:27,200
they are caring people with your health

582
00:26:33,110 --> 00:26:29,679
and well-being their priority

583
00:26:36,830 --> 00:26:33,120
unlike your money-hungry gp they

584
00:26:40,230 --> 00:26:36,840
will correct underlying causative

585
00:26:42,549 --> 00:26:40,240
factors support your lifestyle to

586
00:26:43,269 --> 00:26:42,559
compensate for environmental factors

587
00:26:46,950 --> 00:26:43,279
which

588
00:26:48,549 --> 00:26:46,960
might be damaging your health advise you

589
00:26:51,909 --> 00:26:48,559
on how to make your

590
00:26:53,750 --> 00:26:51,919
body's natural defenses work more

591
00:26:55,830 --> 00:26:53,760
efficiently

592
00:26:57,350 --> 00:26:55,840
advise you on stress management

593
00:27:01,029 --> 00:26:57,360
digestive health

594
00:27:04,230 --> 00:27:01,039
and improving your energy

595
00:27:04,830 --> 00:27:04,240
assist you in achieving an abundantly

596
00:27:08,230 --> 00:27:04,840
healthy

597
00:27:12,310 --> 00:27:08,240
life educate you on how to promote

598
00:27:15,430 --> 00:27:12,320
optimal vitality help you improve your

599
00:27:18,389 --> 00:27:15,440
immune system naturally

600
00:27:19,990 --> 00:27:18,399
help relieve the signs and symptoms of

601
00:27:22,389 --> 00:27:20,000
ill health

602
00:27:23,350 --> 00:27:22,399
help you live a healthy balanced quality

603
00:27:26,389 --> 00:27:23,360
of life

604
00:27:29,350 --> 00:27:26,399
and help you make informed

605
00:27:32,070 --> 00:27:29,360
decisions about your health wow who

606
00:27:35,110 --> 00:27:32,080
could possibly refuse such an offer

607
00:27:38,070 --> 00:27:35,120
and all that for only ninety dollars

608
00:27:40,630 --> 00:27:38,080
and it gets better with a naturopathy

609
00:27:41,750 --> 00:27:40,640
loyalty card your fifth consultation is

610
00:27:44,630 --> 00:27:41,760
free

611
00:27:46,230 --> 00:27:44,640
too good to be true what happens during

612
00:27:49,510 --> 00:27:46,240
a consultation

613
00:27:53,110 --> 00:27:49,520
it might start with iridology

614
00:27:57,510 --> 00:27:53,120
unproven and tongue diagnosis

615
00:28:00,070 --> 00:27:57,520
unproven for more in-depth analysis

616
00:28:01,510 --> 00:28:00,080
your blood may be viewed under a

617
00:28:05,190 --> 00:28:01,520
microscope with live

618
00:28:07,510 --> 00:28:05,200
blood analysis unproven to help

619
00:28:08,870 --> 00:28:07,520
assess your current state of health and

620
00:28:13,190 --> 00:28:08,880
evaluate possible

621
00:28:16,470 --> 00:28:13,200
stressors with bioenergetic

622
00:28:19,750 --> 00:28:16,480
screening you might be connected to a

623
00:28:22,950 --> 00:28:19,760
vega acera pro or life

624
00:28:25,430 --> 00:28:22,960
system apparatus all unproven

625
00:28:26,470 --> 00:28:25,440
which assesses organ function

626
00:28:30,230 --> 00:28:26,480
nutritional

627
00:28:33,190 --> 00:28:30,240
vitamin and hormonal deficiencies

628
00:28:35,990 --> 00:28:33,200
heavy metal toxicities allergies

629
00:28:37,029 --> 00:28:36,000
digestive disorders sensitivities and

630
00:28:40,389 --> 00:28:37,039
environmental

631
00:28:43,830 --> 00:28:40,399
substances background infections

632
00:28:46,870 --> 00:28:43,840
viruses bacteria fungi and parasites

633
00:28:47,430 --> 00:28:46,880
mental and emotional states spinal

634
00:28:50,549 --> 00:28:47,440
energy

635
00:28:53,350 --> 00:28:50,559
dental work and dental materials

636
00:28:55,430 --> 00:28:53,360
such as amalgam fillings root canal work

637
00:28:58,950 --> 00:28:55,440
anesthetics antibiotics

638
00:29:01,590 --> 00:28:58,960
vaccination disturbance metabolic issues

639
00:29:03,029 --> 00:29:01,600
thyroid disturbance neurological

640
00:29:05,830 --> 00:29:03,039
imbalances

641
00:29:06,950 --> 00:29:05,840
and more while these tests sound

642
00:29:09,750 --> 00:29:06,960
convincing

643
00:29:10,549 --> 00:29:09,760
you will not be told that all should be

644
00:29:13,190 --> 00:29:10,559
avoided

645
00:29:15,669 --> 00:29:13,200
and these devices are not listed with

646
00:29:18,149 --> 00:29:15,679
the therapeutics goods administration

647
00:29:19,909 --> 00:29:18,159
and that many complaints against them

648
00:29:22,389 --> 00:29:19,919
have been upheld

649
00:29:25,110 --> 00:29:22,399
one sponsor was even successfully

650
00:29:27,590 --> 00:29:25,120
challenged by the acc

651
00:29:29,430 --> 00:29:27,600
getting tested by a naturopath might

652
00:29:32,549 --> 00:29:29,440
seem like an option but

653
00:29:33,430 --> 00:29:32,559
apart from a friendly smile and alarmist

654
00:29:35,350 --> 00:29:33,440
words

655
00:29:37,830 --> 00:29:35,360
what they offer is mostly a waste of

656
00:29:40,389 --> 00:29:37,840
time and money

657
00:29:41,430 --> 00:29:40,399
but haven't naturopaths been trained at

658
00:29:44,149 --> 00:29:41,440
uni

659
00:29:44,950 --> 00:29:44,159
some have but attending an australian

660
00:29:48,549 --> 00:29:44,960
university

661
00:29:51,110 --> 00:29:48,559
is regrettably no longer a guarantee

662
00:29:52,230 --> 00:29:51,120
that what is learnt has any scientific

663
00:29:54,149 --> 00:29:52,240
basis

664
00:29:55,669 --> 00:29:54,159
one-third of our universities often

665
00:29:58,789 --> 00:29:55,679
non-science

666
00:30:00,789 --> 00:29:58,799
equals nonsense courses without credible

667
00:30:03,830 --> 00:30:00,799
evidence to back up their claims

668
00:30:04,789 --> 00:30:03,840
homeopathy acupuncture cranosacral

669
00:30:09,190 --> 00:30:04,799
therapy

670
00:30:12,470 --> 00:30:09,200
applied kinesiology energy medicine

671
00:30:13,350 --> 00:30:12,480
the list goes on so why do pharmacy

672
00:30:16,310 --> 00:30:13,360
owners allow

673
00:30:16,990 --> 00:30:16,320
naturopaths in among their real business

674
00:30:19,590 --> 00:30:17,000
of

675
00:30:22,310 --> 00:30:19,600
cooperating with doctors and hospitals

676
00:30:23,909 --> 00:30:22,320
and dispensing effective medicines

677
00:30:26,149 --> 00:30:23,919
according to the pharmacy board of

678
00:30:29,029 --> 00:30:26,159
australia pharmacists

679
00:30:31,350 --> 00:30:29,039
must limit their provision of advice

680
00:30:34,470 --> 00:30:31,360
about alternative interventions

681
00:30:37,669 --> 00:30:34,480
to those therapies which have documented

682
00:30:38,549 --> 00:30:37,679
evidence of effectiveness offering the

683
00:30:41,830 --> 00:30:38,559
services of

684
00:30:43,510 --> 00:30:41,840
in-house naturopaths not only bypasses

685
00:30:46,870 --> 00:30:43,520
these obligations

686
00:30:51,269 --> 00:30:46,880
but considerably increases the owner's

687
00:30:53,669 --> 00:30:51,279
profits from complementary medicines

688
00:30:56,149 --> 00:30:53,679
pharmacies are supposed to be frontline

689
00:30:58,630 --> 00:30:56,159
agents of primary care

690
00:31:00,149 --> 00:30:58,640
their role includes protecting patients

691
00:31:03,509 --> 00:31:00,159
from the fraudulent and

692
00:31:06,710 --> 00:31:03,519
unscientific pharmacists must be

693
00:31:07,350 --> 00:31:06,720
personally and properly persuaded of the

694
00:31:10,710 --> 00:31:07,360
safety

695
00:31:13,750 --> 00:31:10,720
and effectiveness of what they offer but

696
00:31:16,630 --> 00:31:13,760
with deals negotiated behind closed

697
00:31:19,750 --> 00:31:16,640
doors by the marketing departments of

698
00:31:22,630 --> 00:31:19,760
big vitamin with no professional input

699
00:31:23,669 --> 00:31:22,640
the provision of naturopathy remains an

700
00:31:27,430 --> 00:31:23,679
unethical

701
00:31:30,149 --> 00:31:27,440
profit-seeking gimmick see the story on

702
00:31:32,710 --> 00:31:30,159
vitamin supplier blackmore's attempted

703
00:31:33,590 --> 00:31:32,720
coke and fries deal with the pharmacy

704
00:31:37,110 --> 00:31:33,600
guild

705
00:31:40,070 --> 00:31:37,120
the skeptic page 20 volume 31

706
00:31:40,789 --> 00:31:40,080
number four december 2011. are we to

707
00:31:43,269 --> 00:31:40,799
believe that

708
00:31:45,590 --> 00:31:43,279
pharmacy owners who host these clinics

709
00:31:45,990 --> 00:31:45,600
are unaware of what their customers are

710
00:31:49,509 --> 00:31:46,000
being

711
00:31:52,149 --> 00:31:49,519
told patients trust the professional

712
00:31:54,310 --> 00:31:52,159
judgment of their pharmacists isn't

713
00:31:56,789 --> 00:31:54,320
hosting a naturopathy clinic

714
00:31:58,470 --> 00:31:56,799
inadvertently making a recommendation by

715
00:32:00,549 --> 00:31:58,480
implication

716
00:32:02,630 --> 00:32:00,559
can you really trust a pharmacy where

717
00:32:05,990 --> 00:32:02,640
you are encouraged to have

718
00:32:07,909 --> 00:32:06,000
unproven diagnostics questionable advice

719
00:32:10,310 --> 00:32:07,919
and so-called treatments from someone

720
00:32:13,110 --> 00:32:10,320
trained in pseudoscience

721
00:32:14,549 --> 00:32:13,120
pharmacies can only be owned by

722
00:32:16,870 --> 00:32:14,559
pharmacists

723
00:32:19,029 --> 00:32:16,880
many argue that they must offer

724
00:32:20,230 --> 00:32:19,039
alternative medicine to meet consumer

725
00:32:22,310 --> 00:32:20,240
demand

726
00:32:23,430 --> 00:32:22,320
have they forgotten that they are part

727
00:32:26,630 --> 00:32:23,440
of the team

728
00:32:28,789 --> 00:32:26,640
treating patients not consumers

729
00:32:30,710 --> 00:32:28,799
are they not ignoring science and

730
00:32:33,750 --> 00:32:30,720
putting profit over their patients

731
00:32:36,710 --> 00:32:33,760
health as honest pharmacists speak

732
00:32:38,870 --> 00:32:36,720
out against the unethical practice will

733
00:32:42,470 --> 00:32:38,880
others start listening to their own

734
00:32:45,110 --> 00:32:42,480
professional leaders

735
00:32:46,470 --> 00:32:45,120
about the author loretta marin is a

736
00:32:49,110 --> 00:32:46,480
three-time winner of

737
00:32:49,830 --> 00:32:49,120
skeptic of the year and founder of

738
00:32:53,350 --> 00:32:49,840
friends

739
00:32:58,389 --> 00:32:55,269
[Music]

740
00:32:58,870 --> 00:32:58,399
and that was pharmacy fantasy found on

741
00:33:01,350 --> 00:32:58,880
page

742
00:33:02,950 --> 00:33:01,360
22 of the skeptic the journal from

743
00:33:06,230 --> 00:33:02,960
australian skeptics volume

744
00:33:08,830 --> 00:33:06,240
34 number three from september 2014.

745
00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:08,840
yours free to download from

746
00:33:14,789 --> 00:33:11,530
www.skeptics.com

747
00:33:18,310 --> 00:33:14,799
[Laughter]

748
00:33:18,950 --> 00:33:18,320
and i'm sorry to say that nothing has

749
00:33:21,990 --> 00:33:18,960
changed

750
00:33:23,909 --> 00:33:22,000
since that article was published it is

751
00:33:25,029 --> 00:33:23,919
very easy these days to walk into a

752
00:33:28,470 --> 00:33:25,039
pharmacy

753
00:33:31,430 --> 00:33:28,480
in australia and discover a naturopath

754
00:33:31,909 --> 00:33:31,440
lurking in the corner but even if there

755
00:33:34,630 --> 00:33:31,919
wasn't

756
00:33:37,110 --> 00:33:34,640
a naturopath lurking in the corner you

757
00:33:56,950 --> 00:33:37,120
can still find plenty of pseudoscience

758
00:34:00,310 --> 00:33:58,789
thank you for listening to the skeptic

759
00:34:02,149 --> 00:34:00,320
zone next week

760
00:34:04,630 --> 00:34:02,159
uh hopefully i should be able to bring

761
00:34:06,149 --> 00:34:04,640
you a recording of the skeptic zone live

762
00:34:08,950 --> 00:34:06,159
recorded here in atlanta

763
00:34:10,470 --> 00:34:08,960
georgia at dragon con with my special

764
00:34:13,109 --> 00:34:10,480
guest margaret downey

765
00:34:14,389 --> 00:34:13,119
hopefully that's coming up next week and

766
00:34:17,430 --> 00:34:14,399
just before i wrap

767
00:34:19,510 --> 00:34:17,440
up this this episode this morning as i

768
00:34:19,990 --> 00:34:19,520
record this i've just come back from

769
00:34:23,669 --> 00:34:20,000
walking

770
00:34:25,829 --> 00:34:23,679
in the dragon con parade through atlanta

771
00:34:27,270 --> 00:34:25,839
never done that before and i was dressed

772
00:34:29,990 --> 00:34:27,280
as a greek philosopher

773
00:34:30,389 --> 00:34:30,000
what a lot of fun that was what a lot of

774
00:34:32,710 --> 00:34:30,399
fun

775
00:34:33,669 --> 00:34:32,720
thousands and thousands of people waving

776
00:34:38,149 --> 00:34:33,679
and cheering

777
00:34:40,389 --> 00:34:38,159
as the whole passing parade passed by

778
00:34:42,230 --> 00:34:40,399
but for this week and wish me luck this

779
00:34:47,750 --> 00:34:42,240
is richard saunders signing off

780
00:34:50,950 --> 00:34:49,510
you've been listening to the skeptic

781
00:34:54,190 --> 00:34:50,960
zone podcast

782
00:34:55,510 --> 00:34:54,200
please visit our website at

783
00:34:58,630 --> 00:34:55,520
www.skepticzone.tv

784
00:35:00,630 --> 00:34:58,640
for show notes contacts and to access

785
00:35:04,150 --> 00:35:00,640
the back catalog of episodes

786
00:35:06,150 --> 00:35:04,160
going back to 2008 you can follow the

787
00:35:09,670 --> 00:35:06,160
skeptic zone podcast on twitter

788
00:35:13,190 --> 00:35:09,680
at skepticzone visit our facebook page

789
00:35:14,550 --> 00:35:13,200
or leave a review on itunes you can also

790
00:35:17,829 --> 00:35:14,560
support the skeptic zone

791
00:35:18,550 --> 00:35:17,839
via patreon or paypal the skeptic zone

792
00:35:21,430 --> 00:35:18,560
podcast

793
00:35:23,270 --> 00:35:21,440
is an independent production the views

794
00:35:23,670 --> 00:35:23,280
and opinions expressed on the skeptic

795
00:35:25,670 --> 00:35:23,680
zone

796
00:35:27,589 --> 00:35:25,680
are not necessarily those of australian